Graced to Lead

Ep. 19: Empowering Leaders: Expert Tips for Career Growth with Ayana Carroll

• Belinda Gaston • Season 1 • Episode 19

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Discover some keys to career growth with expert insights from Ayana Carroll, a trailblazer in human resources and leadership development. Join us as Ayana shares tips on overcoming leadership struggles like imposter syndrome and the unique pressures faced by women in male-dominated environments. Ayanna reveals how acknowledging your right to lead is the first step towards dismantling unrealistic expectations and fostering a healthier leadership mindset.

Mid-level leaders, often the unsung heroes of organizations, face unique challenges, and Ayana offers practical advice to empower them. She emphasizes self-advocacy, increasing visibility, and becoming an expert in your field as keys to unlocking career potential. Hear actionable steps for mid-level professionals to navigate their roles effectively, prevent career stagnation, and ensure their contributions are recognized. Tune in for an episode packed with insights to enhance your leadership journey and career growth.

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Belinda Gaston:

Welcome to the Graced to Lead podcast. I'm Belinda Gaston, your host, and listen. If you are a Christian woman who leads at work, in your own business or even in ministry, you are in the right place here. You'll find practical advice and encouragement as you lead through real conversations that will challenge and inspire you. So join me on this journey to becoming better leaders, god's way. Are you ready? Let the journey begin. Welcome to the Graced to Lead podcast. I am Belinda Gaston, your host, and listen.

Belinda Gaston:

Today we have a dynamic conversation. We have with us none other than the Ayana Carroll, and let me tell you about Ayana. Ayana is a professional in the world of human resources and leadership development. With over two decades of experience As a passionate advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion, Ayana has played a pivotal role in transforming workplace cultures. at the executive level in the tech industry, she has honed her skills in building and leading high-performing teams. Now, as the founder of ARC Consulting, Ayana is dedicated to empowering mid-level professionals, helping them unlock their leadership potential and accelerate their careers. Her unique blend of corporate experience and hands-on coaching is designed to inspire and guide emerging leaders in their journeys, workplaces or nurturing the next generation of leaders. You can find her traveling the world with her husband, cheering on her son in the football field and playing with her beloved puppies, roxy and Snoopy. Graced the Lead podcast listeners. Would you do me a favor and give a virtual welcome to Ayana Carroll. Ayana, welcome to the Graced the Lead podcast.

Ayana Carroll:

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I am really excited to have this very important discussion. This is going to be great.

Belinda Gaston:

And I think that you're perfect for this conversation because you've had so much experience in the world of HR and because you are a coach for mid-level leaders, and so I'm looking forward to your insights on this topic. So let's start with what we've discussed. You are a coach for mid-level leaders, and so I'm looking forward to your insights on this topic, so let's start with what we've discussed. In a previous episode, I discussed leadership and loneliness, leadership and isolation. It really did spark a conversation and resonate with the Graced to Lead audience. So my first question is in your experience, why do you think that this topic struck such a chord with so many people?

Ayana Carroll:

And you know I'm really going to speak from my experience with these because you know I don't want to speak for everyone, but I believe it resonated so strongly with with people, because leadership often comes with a sense of responsibility and pressure right, and they can, and that in itself can create a feeling of isolation and I think that many leaders feel like they must shoulder the burden alone and it makes it difficult. You know when you're, when you're trying to do that and you don't necessarily share that struggle with others. I also think that there is an expectation that leaders this was really serious for me that leaders have all of the knowledge. They know all of the things you know like I know it all, and if I appear that I don't know it all, then am I not the leader that I think that I am? So that also keeps, I believe, people from sharing when they should and keeps them isolated and keeps them confined to their selves.

Ayana Carroll:

So I think that there's a that could be why this struck a chord with so many people. It's like I I'm supposed to know everything, I'm supposed to be this very senior level leader and if it appears that I don't know what I'm doing or I don't have all of the information or I don't know all of the answers, then am I really that great of a leader? So I think, at least when I think about leadership, that's how I was feeling when I was going into it and when I'm growing up in it and as I'm coaching people, those are the things that I I see and I hear and I feel.

Belinda Gaston:

Yeah, thank you for sharing that, and I'm curious where do you think that idea comes from, that, as women who lead, we have to have all the answers or if, or. If we don't have the answers, that you know we somehow are failing as leaders. Where does that pressure come from, you think?

Ayana Carroll:

I think it goes back to the imposter syndrome a little bit. Right. It could be that if I don't know it, do I really belong here?

Ayana Carroll:

You know, we're made to feel like and I don't know why we're made to feel like this, but we're made to feel like we have to know everything because as women, we show up in these spaces that are lots of times very male dominated, right, and if we don't know, it looks as if we don't belong in that space, but in fact we really do.

Ayana Carroll:

I remember and I don't will not ever evoke politics in anything, but I remember that Michelle Obama said one time when she sat in a room with mostly men that it really turned out that they didn't know as much as you know. They were not as smart as she thought that they were. And I think, if we approach that not that men are not smart, but I think that if we approach it that I have just as much right to be here. I know all of the things that I feel like I need to know, and if I don't, that's okay, we will be fine. But I think we approach this as there's not many of us in the room, so we have to be better, we have to show up differently, otherwise we won't be taken seriously and we won't be given these opportunities again. So I think there's a little bit of that in there.

Belinda Gaston:

And I know for me and my leadership journey, it is that kind of idea of really unrealistic goals and pressure sometimes that we set on ourselves as women who lead, and I often wonder if it's the same way for men. One day I'm going to have an episode where I ask men like, what are you thinking about when you lead? Because I've never heard a man say or allude to anything like that. But for sure, for women, we often put pressure on ourselves to almost be perfect. It's this idea of perfection in leadership, and so it can be challenging, and I know that a lot of what resonated in the previous episode was this idea that a couple people wrote in and said I didn't know. I thought I was the only one who felt like this, and so I would love it. Ayana, if you are comfortable sharing a time in your journey. I mean, you have been at the top levels of leadership in your career. Has there ever been a time where you've had to overcome loneliness or isolation as a leader and, if so, how did you navigate that space?

Ayana Carroll:

Yeah, many times, many times. Most recently, I recall a time when I was navigating a significant leadership transition and I felt incredibly isolated. I was leading us through a major organizational change and the weight of the decisions that I had to make were overwhelming. They were overwhelming. I felt that I couldn't fully express my concerns or my uncertainty with my team. I'm part of a leadership team and I couldn't express my concerns or my uncertainties with my leadership team. And not only did I feel like I couldn't, I also didn't want to look like I didn't know what I was doing. So there was a point in time where I was just I was.

Ayana Carroll:

I was really suffering and because that transition was new for me, it was going into a completely different role and the transition was new for me. It was going into a completely different role and the transition was new for the company. I hadn't built that board of advisors around me yet that I could go out and seek help from other people. So it was a really difficult, difficult time for me. So what I had to do to get through that was that was a moment where I really had to lean on my faith, because I didn't have those board advisors around me, I didn't have the support of the leadership team within my company, and, although I have great friends, it just wasn't a space where I felt like I could share with them and get the advice and counsel that I needed.

Ayana Carroll:

So I was. I felt pretty isolated and pretty alone, pretty overwhelmed and, at times, I dare to say, traumatized by the fact that I didn't have the support that I needed. That was a period of time where I really had to lean on my faith and go into a lot of prayer about how to handle that situation and to not feel isolated by it. So I leaned heavily on prayer and sought out wisdom and spiritual guidance to get through that. Ultimately, though, I was able to build that board around me and I was able to kind of come through, lead the company through where we needed to go through board around me, and I was able to kind of come through, lead the company through where we needed to go through, the organization through where we needed to go through with the advising council just some mentors and some support outside, and it worked out.

Belinda Gaston:

Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being so transparent about that. I think it's helpful for our listeners to hear that people in all levels, including the highest levels, have similar experiences, different forms. The number one thing that people say is I don't know how to find these people. A lot of times, I even shared in the previous episode that I've been intimidated by reaching out to someone. It really takes a level of transparency and vulnerability to put yourself out there. So I think it would be really helpful if you can talk a little bit about how you developed that personal advisory board. How did you get those people around you and invite them into a space where you can receive their advice and where they'd be willing to give you advice?

Ayana Carroll:

Yeah, not only did it take vulnerability, it took a lot of courage. Right, it's just not natural for me at least, it's not natural to go out and start emailing people and say, hey, introducing yourself and who I am and can you be part of my you know my trusted board. But that's exactly what I did. You know a couple of different ways. So I went to some folks that I had already known that would have some connections in the industry that I was in it happened to be DE&I and said, listen, I am new with this. I would like to have somebody who is very well versed in this. Can you maybe introduce me to some folks that you think would be helpful? And that happened to be some folks on the board of directors of my company that I was friendly with and they introduced me. But the other part of it was I went to LinkedIn and I found thought leaders and experts in the industry and I sent them messages letting them know who I was, letting them know what I was doing and telling them that this is what I needed. And you would be surprised at the people who are like absolutely, this is fantastic, let me help you. I'm happy to dedicate that time to you and that's what I did and I was able to come out with a really great group of diverse people, voices and perspective that was able to help me kind of navigate through some of that space.

Ayana Carroll:

So it's a scary moment. I think that we all feel like I don't want anybody to say no, I don't want to feel rejected or you know, I'm sending out these unsolicited emails or DMs to people who are going to be like I don't even know who you are. But I didn't get one single person who was like no, I don't know you, I don't have time. There were people who said I would love to do this but I'm at capacity right now and I don't know that I'd be able to really fully and completely commit to you. And that was perfectly fine. They were kind and they all responded. But putting yourself out there and just stepping out on faith and sending that message to those folks, I think the best way to do it to a lot of different people.

Belinda Gaston:

And that is so interesting because I would think I mean, if you're sending out things, you think, oh, what about the rejection? Oh, I'm going to get this rejection and it's going to be terrible. And what I hear you saying, ayana, is that in fact, you got fewer rejections than you expected, and they weren't necessarily rejections. It was a not. Right now I just don't have the capacity to help you, but they were willing to help you, and that's what I'm hearing.

Ayana Carroll:

That's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened, and I think we need to be okay with the rejections. It's going to happen and I don't think it's a rejection on you. It's just maybe I just don't have the capacity now. So in those moments and I really had to sit with myself in that in those moments it's not a rejection on your person. It's perhaps the person just doesn't have the capacity and maybe they didn't use the right words. So we have to be okay with the fact that it's a no and then we move on and not take it personally. But if we just sit and don't do it, it's at our detriment.

Belinda Gaston:

Now that's a moment we need to pause. Listeners, I hope that you heard what Ayana just said. So you are at a crossroads where you can choose to be courageous and be vulnerable at the risk of a rejection that is not a rejection of you personally, but just at the opportunity right then or you can do nothing and sit in the same space and not see change. So the question for you, listeners, is what will you do in this moment?

Ayana Carroll:

Yeah.

Belinda Gaston:

So I think it's great for us to turn to some other tips here. If you were to give a few tips. You've just talked about building a personal advisory board. You've admonished people to really be courageous and to do it. You've given tips about using LinkedIn to do that.

Ayana Carroll:

Yeah, the advisory board and sponsors and mentors are going to be really huge in that and I don't know if this is going to be something that is going to lead you from a place of isolation and loneliness, but it could take some of the burden off so that it could help. And that's delegation. I said earlier that you know, as a leader, we feel like we have to take on all of the things and know all of the stuff and do all of the work, but we don't. So if we learn how to delegate some of our responsibilities that we can to people, we're not burdened so much with all of the things, burdened so much with all of the things and we don't have to always feel like there is, then we've got to take it all on and that there is that piece of loneliness that comes with having all of the burdens, having to solve all of the problems. If you allow someone else that may, quite frankly, be better at it than you may be to take on some of those responsibilities, that could be helpful as well.

Ayana Carroll:

So that was a lesson for me in leadership that I had to do because, as a woman in leadership, there's not many of us. If I'm not good and if I don't do this well, it's going to look bad on me. So I'm going to just take it and I'm going to do it. And I felt burdened, I felt tired, I felt exhausted, I felt lonely, I felt all of the things.

Ayana Carroll:

But if I would have just allowed someone else into that space and then it also grows and develops them right To have that responsibility. We don't have to do it all, we don't have to do all of the stuff. I mean, many of us are moms and wives and business people and we think that we've got to do all of the things and friends, and you know, some of us have aging parents and we've got all these things that are on us that we have to take. If we just let some of it go and give it to other people, we don't have to sit in that lonely, isolated place alone at all, and that, too, takes a level of trust.

Belinda Gaston:

It takes a level of trust Trusting that one. As a leader, you know those people who work with you and what they're possibly good at and not everyone will rise to the occasion, but you would hope that most do. And it also takes trust in letting go taking your hands off of something and just allowing somebody else to do. It is big for leaders. So thank you for sharing that. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what you offer through ARC Consulting?

Ayana Carroll:

So ARC Consulting is my brand new pivot that I've done out of HR and we specialize in helping mid-level professionals elevate their careers and step confidently into their leadership roles.

Ayana Carroll:

You know, being in DEI, there was a gap between executive leaders and mid-level leaders and how we coach them, mentor them, how they have access to sponsors, and I saw that firsthand and I saw how it really impacted the leadership development.

Ayana Carroll:

And you know, companies often go out and bring leaders in versus training the ones that they already have in their companies. So I want to put folks mid-level professionals in a position where they're able to advocate for themselves, they're able to brand themselves, they're able to find those mentors and coaches and sponsors that they need in order to get access. I want to build their confidence and get them those big projects, build relationships, so that they're able to get into those rooms and say you know I can do this and these are the projects that I've been working on and here's how I can help. So that is what ARC Consulting specializes in and I'm very excited about this. I've had great success over the 20 years that I've been in HR with mentoring and coaching and growing the careers of executive professionals and mid-level professionals, and I thought this is a gap. So how can I help close this gap? I do want to say I coach everyone, but I specialize in Black professionals because there is definitely a gap in the professional world with Black professionals trying to move up that ladder.

Belinda Gaston:

Can you tell me why you have such a passion for mid-level professionals and mid-level managers?

Ayana Carroll:

Yeah. So a really good question, and I think that this question is one that we don't ask often enough about mid-level employees in general, because I believe, in my opinion, that mid-level leaders or managers, employees, are the backbone of every organization. I think that they bridge the gap between senior level and then you know newer type of employees. They are the front line, you know they. They have to deal with strategy, they have to deal with growing their employees, they have to do with revenue, they have to deal with professional development and support of the people that they, that they're responsible for. But they oftentimes go unnoticed and untapped and they don't get the recognition at all. And so we rely heavily on middle level managers, employees, people, and we just we miss that level of greatness within them because we just don't, we don't recognize regularly what they do and how much they contribute to the growth of any organization or the growth of any employee.

Belinda Gaston:

And why do you think that is? Why do you think that we often overlook that group of people?

Ayana Carroll:

I don't think it's by design. I think that mid-level folks are there to do a job and they keep their head down, most of them, and they just get it done. They power through it, they get it done. So they go and notice and in my experience, a lot of them have not been vocal about hey, I'm here, see me, I want to grow. They just get the work done. There's so much to be done. There's so much on their shoulders. Just get the work done. There's so much to be done. There's so much on their shoulders. They're pulled in hundreds of directions. Most of them are understaffed, they have no budget and they're dealing, they're juggling with all of those things. So they just they're not vocal at all and as senior level leaders, we take for granted that they're there and we just assume that they're going to just do the work and they do, and it's a shame. It's a shame because that is untapped potential that we overlook regularly.

Belinda Gaston:

And I think it's easy, when the train is moving well, to just kind of overlook there's no problems and the things are getting done and oftentimes the folks in that area and that space are the ones that are overlooked. And so for our listeners, if they are in a space where they are mid-level professionals, mid-level managers, mid-level leaders and they're on their leadership journey managers, mid-level leaders and they're on their leadership journey First, can you kind of talk about maybe two to three challenges that they tend to face most often if they're in that space?

Ayana Carroll:

Yeah Well, like I said, they don't get the recognition, nobody recognizes them and they're not there. So I think that we miss that, and that's a missed opportunity for senior leaders is to not recognize your mid-level, because then you have diminished morale, you have people who are not showing up, they're burnt out, all of those things. So one of those challenges is the lack of recognition. The other challenge, I think, is being able to manage upward and downward. So I've got to manage up and I've got to manage down, and that's hard to do because you're dealing with different personalities, you're dealing with different people, you're dealing with different strategies, and balancing those expectations effectively are really really difficult, especially if you have a senior leader who's not a strong communicator and you don't know what the goals are and they're not trickling down appropriately, just trying to manage up and get your leader to articulate what it is that there's the goals are, so that then you can then trickle them down so that your team is effective in their roles. Otherwise, otherwise it all falls apart. So I think that's a big challenge that we deal with. And the last thing is career stagnation. Like if I'm a mid-level leader, a mid-level manager, I may want to grow and because I'm not seen, I'm not heard, I'm not recognized, I'm right here and I don't go anywhere else. So that's where we have to begin to make ourselves seen, self-advocate for ourselves and, kind of you know, let people know that we exist.

Ayana Carroll:

And one of the things that I coach my clients on is there may not be a place for you to go, not be a place for you to go, right. So if you're in an organization, depending upon the size and depending upon the position that you're in, you may not be able to grow because there's just nowhere for you to go. But you know that you want to do something different. Like I can do this role with my eyes closed and I'm getting bored and you know there's a lack of morale and all of that stuff. Get out there and go to conferences. Be an expert in your field, become an expert in what you do. So speak at conferences, you know. Talk to other thought leaders and get yourself out there. That's one way to just build yourself up and build your brand and be visible. So those are some of the challenges I think that mid-level managers face and get yourself out there.

Belinda Gaston:

I think that's a great tip. To start with, the first tip you give is to get yourself out there. I'm curious if you have other tips like that to address some of the challenges that you've identified. Are there tips that you would give this group of leaders?

Ayana Carroll:

tips that you would give this group of leaders. Yeah, I think something that goes so untapped is people standing up for themselves and advocating and saying I can do this. And keeping a God what do we call it? A keeping love letters to yourself, so to speak, things that you've done, your work, that you've done. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there and say I have done this, I know how to do this, I, these are all of the things that I have done, that I've accomplished that. You know, we, we, we excel that. So I think that that's one of the things that we don't do, especially women. We don't do well is we do not self-advocate for ourselves and tell people how great I really am. Not self-advocate for ourselves and tell people how great I really am. So telling people how great you are, building your advisory board around you and getting yourself out there, building your brand the kids talk about that a lot my brand, my brand, you know build your brand to tell people who you are.

Ayana Carroll:

When you walk into the room, they'll say, oh, that's so-and-so, they're an expert in this area. Let's tap them and get them to speak, because that's a huge deal these days is being able to speak at some conferences and be a part of panels and podcasts, where you're really able to talk about your knowledge and offer that to others.

Belinda Gaston:

And so I want to go a little bit further with this advocating, because I know this comes up quite a bit and the question is really how do you start to advocate for yourself? So let's say you're in a corporate environment, you're a mid-level leader, you're doing your work well. How do you begin to advocate for yourself in that space? How?

Ayana Carroll:

do you begin to advocate for yourself in that space? So it's very simple. You just start to talk about what you've done and we often think about well, I'm not going to brag about what I've done, why not? Why would you not do that? I mean, you don't have to do it in a way that's distasteful. But that's essentially what you want to do.

Ayana Carroll:

You want to talk about what you've done and what you can add to the project or to the company where your value is. Talk about your value and your worth. So there's no science behind it. It's very simple. I have done this, this and this and these are the outcomes from all of the things that I've done and because of those outcomes, we were able to raise more money, we were able to land this client, we were able to do X, Y and Z. Talk about what you've done. Talk about the outcome that you achieved with all of the things that you've done. I don't recommend you just brag about what you've done without suggesting the outcomes, but you definitely want to do that. There's no science. It's very simple.

Belinda Gaston:

Those are really great tips.

Ayana Carroll:

If I can just add one more thing onto getting in front of people, there's also the opportunity for you to volunteer for projects Outside of self-advocating for yourself. Volunteer for those stretch projects. You don't want to do anything. That's going to be simple. You can do all of this stuff and that isn't going to necessarily bring you all of the recognition because we assume that you can do that. Volunteer for the hard stuff, volunteer for the project that's really going to stretch you and get the attention of people. Don't do anything that you are not equipped to do. But if it's in your wheelhouse and you feel like you can do it and you have that group of advisors around you that can help talk you through it, do it, do it. I really encourage folks to reach out and stretch themselves in some of these things. It can only end well for you.

Ayana Carroll:

What we often forget as mid-level leaders is that your career is your responsibility. Leaders is that your career is your responsibility. That's for your. Your career is your responsibility. Nobody is going to take control of your career for you like you. So if you're not bold enough and courageous enough to speak up and advocate for yourself, then you have to reevaluate what it is you're doing. Maybe you don't want to, maybe some, some people are fine staying right where they are, but your career is your responsibility. So, but I do understand that is a scary moment when you're sitting across from executives and board members or whatever it's, you're afraid to raise your hand. But listen, you got to eat, you have to eat. So being able to say I kind of disagree with that, or let me tell you what I've done, is you only need to do it one time and then from there you'll feel comfortable with it. So, yes, that's what we teach, that's what we do.

Ayana Carroll:

And it took me a long time to get there too. So I can't even pretend like I came out the boom speaking up for myself, but absolutely. And then what else happens is if you don't speak up for yourself and a company grows, or they go into a different direction, or the organization changes and you're mid-level, they may bring someone over you, right? So perhaps you are currently reporting to a senior director and that senior director is like listen, I need another layer underneath me to manage these people. You could have been that person that got that promotion, but because you didn't self-advocate, because you didn't speak up, because you didn't bring out your love letters and tell people what you did, that's a missed opportunity for you. And now you're mad, and now you want to leave. Your morale is down. All of those things you have, all those feelings. So it's up to you to do it.

Belinda Gaston:

Wow, your career is your responsibility, yes, yes. And for our listeners, ayana has a wealth of knowledge in this space. How can people reach out to you? How can they contact you?

Ayana Carroll:

Yes, you can reach out to me via my LinkedIn at Ayana Carroll at LinkedIn, or you can visit my Instagram page, which is coach consulting on Instagram, or you can visit my website at goarccoachconsultingcom.

Belinda Gaston:

We do have the information for ARC consulting and how to get in touch with Ayana in the show's notes. So thank you, ayana, for being a part of the podcast. I really appreciate it. You really did drop some wisdom nuggets, and so we thank you for that.

Ayana Carroll:

Thank you for having me. This was fantastic. I appreciate being here.

Belinda Gaston:

Thank you, Ayana. This has been a great episode. Thank you so much for listening to the Graced to Lead podcast. As always, I don't take your listening, downloading our episodes lightly. We appreciate you joining us and we will be back again next week. We are almost at the end of our first season. I cannot believe it. So you definitely want to come back next week, because it is our last episode for the season one of the Graced to Lead podcast and, don't worry, we'll be back for season two. I have lots of new things happening, so I can't wait to tell you all about it. But until then, join us next time on the Graced to Lead podcast and remember you are indeed Graced to lead Bye-bye.

Ayana Carroll:

Thank you.

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