Graced to Lead

Bonus Ep. 21- From Corporate to Calling: A Journey to Purposeful Entrepreneurship with Christal Newkirk

• Belinda Gaston • Season 1 • Episode 21

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Christal Newkirk, a two-time international best-selling author and executive coach, joins us for an inspiring conversation on her journey from corporate life to thriving entrepreneurship. As the oldest daughter in a family of seven, Christal Newkirks path was influenced by her mother's success in the telecommunications industry, igniting her ambition to break away from the confines of a traditional nine-to-five job. Tune in as she shares how her spiritual beliefs and the unwavering support of her entrepreneurial twin brother guided her through the challenges of self-doubt and imposter syndrome, ultimately leading her to a life of independence and purpose.

Throughout the episode, we explore the courage it takes to transition into entrepreneurship, especially when health challenges demand a reevaluation of priorities. Christal shares valuable insights on finding mentors, embracing new opportunities, and aligning one's career with personal values and well-being. Discover how understanding your identity and recognizing your innate gifts can empower you to walk in purpose, as Christal recounts her own experiences in talent acquisition and her passion for empowering others. This episode is a heartfelt guide for anyone ready to pursue their calling and create a life that resonates with their true self.

Mentioned during this episode:

Connect with Christal!

Linkedin: ChristalTheCoach
Facebook: ChristalTheCoach
Instagram: ChristalTheCoach
Queen City Women In Business, Georgia Chapter: QCIB Georgia
Christal's Mentor/Coach: Denise Taylor

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Belinda Gaston:

Welcome to the Graced to Lead podcast.

Belinda Gaston:

I'm Belinda Gaston, your host, and listen. If you are a Christian woman who leads at work, in your own business or even in ministry, you are in the right place. Here. You'll find practical advice and encouragement as you lead through real conversations that will challenge and inspire you. So join me on this journey to becoming better leaders, god's way. Are you ready? Let the journey begin.

Belinda Gaston:

Welcome to the Graced to Lead podcast. I am Belinda Gaston, your host, and listen. Today we have a dynamic guest. I don't even want to spoil this for you, except to say that she is the woman that knows how to be a spark in this world, and I'm so grateful for her. Yes, so I want to welcome to the show the one and only Christal Newkirk, and before I let her speak, I need to tell you who we're dealing with, y'all, because Christal is an amazing woman. Listen, she is a two-time international best-selling author. She's an executive coach. She's the CEO and managing partner of ACS, a division of Above HR Solutions. Acs partners with major organizations to provide general construction and facilities management services. Let me start that again.

Belinda Gaston:

Christal Newkirk is a two-time international best-selling author, an executive coach, ceo and managing partner of ACS, a division of Above HR Solutions, and, for those of you who don't know, acs partners with major organizations to provide general construction and facilities maintenance services. Christal is also the incoming Georgia Chapter President for QC Women in Business, effective January 1st 2025. She will have five locations throughout the state of Georgia to help women-owned business suppliers connect faster with B2B and corporate buyers. Christal has over 20 years of corporate recruitment, dei, affirmative action planning and compliance experience. She earned her Master of Science Management degree in Process, dei, affirmative Action, planning and Compliance Experience. She earned her Master of Science Management degree in Process Improvement and a Bachelor's degree in Marketing from North Carolina State University, as well as completed her Executive Coach Certification with the John Maxwell team.

Belinda Gaston:

Christal and her husband, Rodney are co-preneurs and currently manage multiple businesses, including a real estate investment firm. They reside in South Carolina with their fur baby, Dundee, and they enjoy cycling, traveling and spending time with their family. Listen, Graced to Lead listeners. I need you to put your virtual hands together, give a virtual applause for none other than Christal Newkirk. Welcome to the show, Christal.

Christal Newkirk:

Linda, thank you so much. I think I need to take you on the road with me with the introductions. I love that. Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today.

Belinda Gaston:

You're welcome and I am excited because there are a couple of things for our listeners that I need you to recognize when I was reading her bio. One is that she is a business leader who really knows businesses. She has her own business and she also knows how to connect people I don't know if you heard me when I said that, but being able to connect women business owners with the resources they need, and she's also a coach, and so I think when you bring those things together and y'all she works with her husband we don't have to talk about this co-preneurship, but there is a wealth of information here. So first, I think, to help us frame this conversation, it would be wonderful, Christal, to hear from you about your journey to entrepreneurship. Can you tell us a little bit about that, and how did you know that this was something you wanted to do?

Christal Newkirk:

Now that's an excellent question. Honestly, growing up with a single parent of seven children and as the oldest daughter, I saw my mom working hard and I always knew that I wanted to be a businesswoman like my mom. So, seeing her work in the telecommunications space and seeing her just talking and a great public speaker, I knew that. But it wasn't until I attended college and graduated and started my first job that I realized that the typical nine to five was not for me, because even though I finished my master's at age 25 and started working at that time, I immediately started a side hustle.

Christal Newkirk:

I started my business part-time in my early 20s because, number one, I wanted to make more money than what they were paying me and I knew I could. But and so I think I know that it was the freedom to make more and to control my financial life. That was the initial reason why I decided and I started just as an independent consultant. My twin brother was an entrepreneur at that time and so I think my siblings say it's an egg thing, you know, because of the twins. So when my twin, he had started his business and I was like I think I want to do the same thing and he walked me through the process. But again, that first step was the desire to make more than what I was receiving from my I call it my W-2 investor, but that was my daytime job.

Belinda Gaston:

And so that desire for you. This is great. Thank you for sharing that. This desire for more. It seemed to either come from the role modeling you had with your mom, but there was probably something else innately there. Do you know what the other thing was? I mean, you said you wanted to make more money than what your W-2 investor provided, but was there anything else there that pushed you forward? It sounds like there may have been something innate there. Could you describe it? And if you can't describe it, I totally. It's fine, but I'm just curious can you describe that?

Christal Newkirk:

Yes, and thanks for that follow-up question. Honestly, it started there, but it was during my spiritual journey in my early twenties that, as I start to study the word and really believe the word, I instantly connected to the word when it stated that the wealth and riches were laid up for the just that God created us for an abundance. I remember taking assessments while I was in my layman's school of studies for spiritual growth and at that time my spiritual gift was undefined as that of a financial dominator, that I was called to not only bring in the wealth but also to be the king and the priest. So I quickly identified that I was willing to take the risk to go after that. It's so funny early in my 20s I was willing to take the risk. It's funny now, as I age, that sometimes you can get comfortable but I digress.

Christal Newkirk:

But I do remember just that boldness to go for more and really believe. At that time it was the word and what it says who I was and what I could have. And in the markets, when I saw that the job was only going to limit one thing, my attitude was I could create a job, I could go get more, I don't have to limit myself. So it was definitely that courage, the boldness, that determination that just made me want to go for more and not just stay with what was given. But a large part of that was growing up with a single parent of seven kids and did not want to. I didn't want that life, and so that created a determination in me to go for more. That makes sense.

Belinda Gaston:

It does make sense, and, I think, for our listeners. There are two things I wanna point out in what Christal said. One is it doesn't matter where you start, right, she started in a home that she describes as being one where her mother was a single parent with seven children. That means that there's a lot of activities, there's a lot of busyness, and we always say busyness, busyness, there's a lot of busyness going on in that space, say busyness, busyness, there's a lot of busyness going on in that space. And there wasn't. It sounds like.

Belinda Gaston:

What I heard you say, Christal, is that there wasn't exactly a teaching on entrepreneurship, but there were role models in your life, like your brother, your twin brother, who said I'm doing this, you can do this too, right, and so I want to point out that it doesn't matter where you start.

Belinda Gaston:

It does matter, though, when you have the people who can influence you, like Christal twin brother, that you are willing to take the risks, take the risk, and so those are two things that I think stood out, and it's interesting, Christal, that you mentioned the risk-taking, because it is so much easier to take risks when you're younger than as you get older. It really is, and so I think if you were to, it's almost. We often ask this question what would you tell your younger self as it relates to risk-taking? But I'm going to flip this question for a second. But I'm going to flip this question for a second. What would that firecracker, risk taker, Christal, tell her older self about taking risks? What advice do you think that she would give to you, as a person that's older than where she was when she started?

Christal Newkirk:

No, that's a great question. And I want to circle back. My twin brother name is Chris Spence because I keep saying twin, but even in my phone he's a great question. And I want to circle back. My twin brother name is Chris Spence because I keep saying twin, but even in my phone he's listed as twin. So so Christal and Chris. His name is Chris, so I know the younger Christal would tell me now, and I heard this word a couple of weeks ago and I made it my own and that word is bet on yourself.

Christal Newkirk:

I wish I'd have taken more risk than what I have done. So I started strong and somewhere in my season I definitely became comfortable. And now in my later life, just even recently, that in in leaving my W2 investor last month. I know that that decision could have been made sooner, especially when multiplications start to occur, but the best, the number one, was bet on yourself.

Christal Newkirk:

Believe that you are who God says you are, and that belief then results into corresponding actions. So betting on myself, what does that look like? It is like going for that goal that I have in mind, taking more steps to really obtain it and not just stop at the first obstacle that I experience. Stop at the first obstacle that I experienced and like I had a letdown or something didn't go the direction that I expected, and I allow that to slow me down versus and then slow down for a season, but don't let it stop me and allow yourself to get stuck. So that's definitely what my experience have been and that's definitely something that I would tell myself now experience have been, and that's definitely something that I would tell myself now.

Belinda Gaston:

That is great advice and embedding on yourself is. It's so difficult because it's really tied to so many things. It's tied to your own kind of innate confidence in what you're doing. It's tied to what people say you should be, and, you know, one of the reasons I was really excited about having you on this show is because there was something about you that I can relate to, and it's the idea of being able to do things and new things, whether it's for forming your business, whether it's your executive coaching, doing that thing despite what other people may think about it right. And that is something I think.

Belinda Gaston:

As women who lead, we often get in this trap of I'm doing this because, one, I'm good at it and, two, it's what I'm supposed to do, and so I'd like to talk about that a little bit, because I know a little bit of your journey. I don't know the whole story, but as you made this transition from you know, working for someone else to being an entrepreneur, how did you manage to overcome the supposed tos that's what I call it what you're supposed to be doing, what other people think you're supposed to be doing. How do you overcome that as a leader, when you know that it's something that God put in your heart but it doesn't make sense to other people?

Christal Newkirk:

Man just thinking about that question, because what I was supposed to do was to, like I was taught, go off to college, work for a company 25, 30 years and retire. But, honestly, because I at an early age, when I received Jesus as Lord and my Savior at age 13, and then after I rededicated my life back to Christ at age 29, I decided then that I really wanted to seek purpose. So that became a regular conversation with God and I I am truly a journal, I love journaling, and so that's a question that I will ask regularly. And, to be honest, when we look at my background and look at when I ask God in different seasons, what am I supposed to do next? And look at when I ask God in different seasons, what am I supposed to do next?

Christal Newkirk:

When the opportunity came to start the business, I was like I battled self-confidence, I battled self-doubt, which meaning that there was an area of confidence that was not developed. So, for every journey, then the next season, I'm like, okay, lord, what is it next that you're telling me to do? And then, when he would drive me, point me down the road of coaching and mentoring, which is my true heart, and to go get a certification. I'm like a coach Again. I battle really self-doubt and that imposter syndrome me like can I really do this? But when I pose that question to my tribe and my close family and friends, they're like this is who you are. I may not have referred to myself as a coach, but when I found, when I went to get the certifications, then I felt like I could then call myself that.

Christal Newkirk:

And even when it came to writing my first anthology and now I'm working on the third anthology is that when the opportunity presented itself again, it was another level. You know in college or in junior high you pass first. You know addition, subtraction, multiplications, geometry. You know trigonometry. So all those different levels of math is like that for me. Concerning courage and confidence, there was a level that was needed to get started. But for every step on the ladder to the next season of purpose there was another test and there was another. I'm flexing by putting on muscles, but I had to develop that spiritual muscle in that area for the next level of the assignment, if that makes sense. So when you ask the question what it's like as a leader for me, I'm constantly retesting in those areas for the next level that I know that he's calling me to do.

Belinda Gaston:

Thank you for sharing. That's an excellent analogy. I love that that there are these levels and you just you have to keep re-upping, so to speak, your skills and to get to that, and so I want to talk a little bit about your move from your corporate space as a leader to entrepreneurship. It's clear that things are going phenomenally well since you made the move, but can you tell me and our audience what it was like making that decision? There are some people who are listening right now, Christal, who are. They have a desire in their heart to step out on faith and build their own businesses, but there are, for whatever reasons, haven't done that. Can you share a little bit about your transition for our audience? What kinds of things? What were you feeling at the time and what were the obstacles that you had and how did you overcome those things?

Christal Newkirk:

Yeah, and actually the easy part was starting the business for me Because, as I mentioned, in my late 20s I sought assistance from someone that I saw doing the job. So the first thing that I would highly recommend is that, when you're pursuing anything, identify an individual or two that are doing what you want to do and spend time to inquire on how to do that. So for me, with starting the business, I jumped into it and started quickly and, because I'm a true connector and enjoy marketing, I reached out and was able to obtain clients. My challenge from going from corporate to full time entrepreneurship is that I actually was doing the business full time with multiple clients as well as working full time. So my challenge became leaving that safety net of the W-2 employer which is the W-2 investor because they're investing in my future, which is the W2 investor because they're investing in my future leaving that corporate job and really to do it 100%. I got very comfortable with the corporate because I got the feedback. You know in corporate America you have performance review. So I didn't realize that part of my confidence was tied to who they say I was and how I perform was tied to who they say I was and how I performed and so in corporate America, even though I had a level of success, I did not have the confidence that went with the success. So when it came time, when Holy Spirit directed me in the new season now it's time to pivot. Honestly, it took me about four years to obey it 100%, to really walk away and say, okay, lord, I'll surrender. And that date was just recently July 12th, 2024. So as we look at the calendar, that's just six weeks ago, but it took almost four years to make that step. Now, along the way there was levels of obedience, but we know that Father God wants complete obedience, 100%.

Christal Newkirk:

So in the last year my health became greatly impacted because, again, I was carrying too much, such that I found myself drowning. When he's like, let go, I've already shown you I'm Jehovah Jireh, I've already provided for you. Trust me and release this. So I got more over here for you on this side. But over the last year I prayed after another health scare. I found myself in the hospital fighting. There were blood clots in my lungs. But that morning I found myself waking up early and having difficulty breathing and then came downstairs and talked to my husband and he immediately took my pulse and my blood pressure and gave me aspirin and took me to the emergency room when we saw that the symptoms did not relieve itself, and that's when the ER, the doctor, found that there were blood clots. So even after that, I still was like, okay, lord, give me the strength, give me the courage and confidence, because I had identified the root to this, and the root was I lack confidence in myself. And so, therefore, what I needed in addition to the mentoring and the coaching but I had already hired a mentor she gave me the tools. I've already prayed. God has given me direction.

Christal Newkirk:

The last step was up to me to now do in the natural, to take that step, but through prayer, holy Spirit had revealed in a dream that I would have an experience, and I didn't know when it would take place. But that particular morning I had an encounter at my daytime with a W-2 employer, w-2 investor, and I realized that today was that day. Of course, when I woke up that morning I didn't know, but it was during that that I was able to finally make that step. But the things that helped me along that journey definitely was the support of my family, hiring a mentor to assist me on that journey, having my spiritual tribe to keep me in prayer as I am walking out and praying, and then having wise counsel that I could talk to that was still holding me up.

Christal Newkirk:

Now, just because I prayed and believed God, there was still an action step that was required to do what he told me to do, and I'm happy to share that. I did take that step and today I am in the business full-time as an entrepreneur. But, for those that are listening, one tool that I use over the last few years and also volunteered as well is definitely with SCORE. Score is a national organization that's funded by the SB&A and provides free business mentoring to entrepreneurs who are looking to start their business or expand that business, and so that I always recommend, as a coach myself, start free first, so start free and then but I did pay for a mentor as well that assists me, and my mentor is Denise Taylor, and she's been phenomenal and holding my arms up over the last three years.

Belinda Gaston:

You have given us so much so for our listeners. Let's recap what I heard Christal say us. So much so for our listeners. Let's recap what I heard Christal say. So the first thing I want to just kind of pose as a moment for us to pause and think about is the idea of what we're carrying, because you said that you know you had to think about kind of what you were carrying and that was a burden, it was affecting you physically, right, but when you said it, it made me also think about what we're carrying innately. So there are the burdens that we're carrying. Listeners, what burdens are you carrying? What burdens are you carrying right now that you can rid yourself of that you are carrying, not because you have to, but because you're holding on to a place where you're not trusting God. What are you carrying that's keeping you from trusting God? That's the first thing. And then the second thing that came up, Christal, as you were talking, is what are you carrying to get you further along in your purpose? What are those gifts, what are those skills? I can already tell, Christal, that you are a natural communicator and you've probably been this way your whole life. How are we, as leaders, looking at that. How are we embracing what we carry? Those are two things.

Belinda Gaston:

And then you gave us some steps. You said, listen, if you want to get from this place, then you first have to move. You just have to move, and that partial obedience to what you're hearing God say to you is still disobedience. And so, in your move, what helped you overcome was your family support, seeking mentorship and then relying on your tribe, your faith tribe that's what you called it, your tribe of faith friends. And so I think that's great. I hope that if you're listening, you're taking this all in.

Belinda Gaston:

And the last thing I want to highlight that I heard Christal say is listen, start free. She just gave us a whole free resource for starting your business, and we'll make sure that we put the information in the show notes, but you don't have to have it all together. It's interesting to me in this show notes, but you don't have to have. You know what, what you don't have to have it all together. It's interesting to me in this podcast journey and now business journey it's the idea of of progress over perfection. Right, we want everything to be just, right and we have to have everything. But as you move, god provides.

Belinda Gaston:

And Christal, you're walking evidence of, as you move, god's provided. You just became a full-time entrepreneur and your schedule is packed, your resources are full, your baskets are overflowing. That's amazing. That's amazing. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for sharing that, Christal. Okay, I'm curious about this idea of purpose, and so I want to ask you about this, because I get the sense that what you're doing is tied very closely to what you believe your purpose is. So can you talk about how you either found your purpose or how you knew what your purpose was and you began to walk in this? How did you make that connection between purpose and what you do every day?

Christal Newkirk:

Yes, actually, I enjoyed human resources because it allowed me to make an impact into people's lives professionally. So talent acquisition I really enjoyed, which was a starting point. I didn't know that was an extension of my purpose. I just knew that, as a type A personality, I'm driven by results. So I wake up ready to drive results. So I need to see outcomes.

Christal Newkirk:

And one thing that talent acquisition allowed me to not receive the job found myself spending more time with them to coach them, to help them prepare for the next step, to stay connected, that they would still reach out to give them free advice on their resumes and say, hey, when I would interview them over the phone and they would give me an answer that could have been phrased differently, I would pause the conversation. Hey, take notes. You got your pencil and paper out. I need you to write this down because for the next step I need you to prepare by phrasing it like this or when it came to compensation and they say, oh, I'm negotiable. I'm like negotiable is never the right answer, come arm in dangerous understanding what is your market value. So, as you see, I get excited just talking about it. But I found myself along that path, spending more time with those to equip them and prepare them. So through that I realized in prayer that my purpose is empowerment through education, that my purpose is empowerment through education. I enjoy that piece and seeing the impact in people's lives. But it first started with education, because education helps renew your mindset and change your mind and sometimes change your direction. So through that my path became people like me, or women, or in marriage. Every season that I'm in God would bring people across my path that, as I'm learning my lesson, I can empower them even if I'm midstream, in the midst of what I'm going through.

Christal Newkirk:

So my passion is truly that of working with women, especially those that are entrepreneurs but even not entrepreneurs. But in this season it is women entrepreneurs that are looking to expand their business, but, more importantly, those that are interested in multiple streams of income. I'm a true believer that multiple streams of income are available to those that want more. And then, secondly, they're willing to do the work. And that's why, when the opportunity to present itself to purchase the Queen City Women in Business Georgia chapter, I said yes to that, because for three reasons.

Christal Newkirk:

It was number one, an extension of my passion. It aligned with my purpose. And then, thirdly, at that time I was in prayer about expanding my business, so it aligned with my business goals. So it was. I never imagined that at the beginning of the year it wasn't part of my yearly plan, but when the opportunity presented itself and I went to God in prayer and then also discussed it with my husband, I decided to follow peace and to accept that opportunity. So you're right, my schedule is busier now than it was before, but God has just proven that hey, I've been with you, I'm walking alongside you, I am for you, and that he's. And because I did move and take action, I was able to, in this season, really capitalize on all that he already had prepared for me, and I'm super excited about that.

Belinda Gaston:

And I'm excited for you, and I think this leads to probably what will be my last question is you know, based on all that you share, you really have taken your leadership journey into a place where you are walking in purpose, and you just described all that you share. You really have taken your leadership journey into a place where you are walking in purpose, and you just described all that. For our listeners, who are maybe trying to figure out how they can walk in purpose in entrepreneurship, or walk in purpose even in their careers, what kinds of tips would you give them for how they can walk in purpose in their leadership journey?

Christal Newkirk:

Yes, one thing that really helped me to understand a walking in my purpose is number one was knowing my identity and knowing that I am the gift and that as I give I am given, showing love and showing light. That's an extension of purpose, because as I pour what's in me, pouring out of my overflow, which sometimes you know, that's a work in progress around self-care, that's another topic. But understanding my identity and who I am and my gifts and talent, and that is a gift, as I'm giving out of my gift, that's an extension of my purpose. But during that season I quickly was able to align just in prayer, where my passion and my purpose, because some seasons they are aligned, but then there's other seasons, like now, like I said, I didn't go into prayer asking initially about purchasing a franchise, but I knew that that aligned.

Christal Newkirk:

So it was really that piece, following what I felt like how God was leading me as I took those steps of faith and saw that it aligned internally and then it aligned with what he had already told me externally as what I'm supposed to accomplish. So that would be my recommendation is to start with just your identity and know who you are in your zone of genius, as my mentor would say, and pour from there, but as you're pouring, it will grow, and then you'll learn more about yourself and more in the next step. I didn't get the next steps until I started in my current steps, so I didn't have the roadmap until I took steps. And as I took the next step and then the next step, god, then my path was enlightened. He was then able to show me which way to go. So that would definitely be my recommendation Start where you are, pour where you are, and as you're pouring, it will be revealed.

Belinda Gaston:

Excellent advice and so, listeners, if you're in the place where you really want to align what your purpose is with your leadership journey we just heard Christal say first know who you are, know yourself, recognize that you are the gift and then, as you begin to use your gift, as you begin to move in that space, then the rest will be revealed. I think a lot of times we want to wait for things to happen and it seems constantly through. This conversation was consistent If everything happens as you move, everything happens as you move, everything happens as you move. Do you have any kind of final thoughts that you'd like to share? And then we'll ask. I'm going to ask you to tell us what you're working on and how people can reach you, but is there final thoughts for anyone listening from you?

Christal Newkirk:

Final thoughts for those that are listening is that this truly has been a season of really just facing fear. So my first recommendation is that find the root issue to that fear. If you're stuck and you're ready to move forward and you're unable to move forward in your job or your relationship or just in your personal life, identify that, the fear that you're facing, and then dig deeper to understand where did that come from? I realized that the reason that I was stuck is that I was still thinking of that little girl that was that grew up with not having a lot, so the fear of stepping out of my comfort zone and running out prevented me from from stepping out at all. And then I had to then go back and realize where's the root of that from. And once I identified that root, then I could then face it and then overcome it.

Christal Newkirk:

And then secondly, as I stated before, do free first, but highly recommend a mentor. And then, thirdly, find your tribe. Find your group of people professional women. Find your faith tribe, but also the professional women that align, that help lift you up on this journey, because it can be overwhelming at time and it's great just to have that tribe that you can bounce it off.

Belinda Gaston:

Thank you, what a great way to end this conversation, Christal. It has been such a pleasure having you on. I have a feeling that you will not be a stranger to the Graced to Lead community, so I thank you for that. Can you just tell us a little bit about what it is that you're working on, how people can reach you? Can you share that with our audience, please?

Christal Newkirk:

Yes, I have two projects I'm working on. Currently We've discussed the Queen City Women in Business. We're starting that Georgia chapter on January 1st, but currently we have a chapter to launch in Indiana that launched May, but we're founded here in the Carolinas, and so, if you're interested, definitely follow me. You can reach me on LinkedIn at Christal the Coach. You can reach me on Facebook at Christal the Coach or on Instagram at Christal the Coach, and the second project that I'm working on is my third anthology with the publisher and author, joan T Randall, and so that is to be released at the beginning of the year as well. So, 2025 is already exciting, as I'm working on a couple of projects, and I look forward to connecting with anyone that's in the audience, that's listening and want to learn more.

Belinda Gaston:

Thank you, Christal, and for our audience, we will have all of this information in the show notes for you, so please take note of it, Christal. Again, thank you, thank you. Thank you for your time. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you, I've enjoyed myself and, to our listeners, thank you so much for tuning into the Graced to Lead podcast. I do not take lightly your choice to listen and to download these episodes. So thank you so much and until we meet each other again, remember you are indeed graced to lead. Bye-bye.

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